Scouts Supplement

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Dimirag
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Re: Scouts Supplement

Post Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:25 pm

Seven wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:32 am The thief could have a penalty for moving silently on outdoors area, not knowing where it's safe to step, but generally might have a higher score.
I think the opposite, Thieves should be equally talented regardless of terrain or environment.
Seven wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:32 am The thief hides in shadows. The scout might be better at hiding in nature by wearing the right clothes, painting his face, etc.
As it stands now, the Scout simply "Hides" which depending on the GM it can work differently. I take they can do more than camouflage, they can hide in places other characters can't in a similar way to thieves hiding where others can't.

I think the Scouting Skills should be described if they work differently than for thieves, once that is done the actual values can then be set.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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Seven
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Re: Scouts Supplement

Post Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:44 pm

I don't see why a city thief would know what is wet ground and what is quicksand.
It's the same way the thief could walk silently into a trap that a dwarf would have spotted.
The thief has the dexterity and the moves, but not the knowledge of the environment.
The thief could climb a tree as well as a scout, but the scout would know which tree is best to hide in. The thief could pick one that's not hard wood and can't bear his weight...
Rosisha
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Re: Scouts Supplement

Post Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:37 pm

Yeah I agree with this. If you don't grow up or train hard in the wilderness, you will not do well in that environment. You can't take some kid from the Bronx and through them into a scout position and be like "well hey, they're the same age as the kid from the backwoods of Tennessee, they'll do great". Doesn't work that way.
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Dimirag
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Re: Scouts Supplement

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:47 pm

From my POV the Thief is of a generic type, not every thief is a town thief, or a city thief, thieves that enter a dungeon for the first time get no penalties on their skills, a forest trained elven thief and an underground dwarven one are equally good regardless of their environment, of course a GM can consider its background when using their skills, but that its up to them, and I'm inclined on giving a bonus instead of penalize a Core Class (or both for highly specialized thieves).
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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Rosisha
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Re: Scouts Supplement

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:25 pm

But that gets back to the whole ranger vs scout dichotomy in the first place.

That said, I do disagree that the thief can be any kind of thief. I'd agree more if the thief skill mechanics work like they do in AD&D 2nd Ed (point purchase distribution by player) as that would allow for that kind of variance and focus. You could even add a few extra skills: Stalking, Tunneling, Escape Bonds, so on and so forth.
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Dimirag
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Re: Scouts Supplement

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:38 pm

Rosisha wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:25 pm But that gets back to the whole ranger vs scout dichotomy in the first place.
Not really, Thieves being generalists and Rogues being terrain+mission focused grants them enough variability, same as two characters specialized on different themes.
Rosisha wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:25 pm That said, I do disagree that the thief can be any kind of thief. I'd agree more if the thief skill mechanics work like they do in AD&D 2nd Ed (point purchase distribution by player) as that would allow for that kind of variance and focus. You could even add a few extra skills: Stalking, Tunneling, Escape Bonds, so on and so forth.

There is the rule for point allocation, although not at first level, but using point distribution works for skill specialization rather than terrain specialization.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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Seven
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Re: Scouts Supplement

Post Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:15 pm

Pick pockets is a city skill.
Climb walls also, or it would be called something else.
Hide "permits the Thief to hide in any shadowed area". Outdoors, you can hide without shadows.

If there was a Perception skill, that would be the primary skill for the scout.
Arguably the thief listen ability fits here.
The scout is always on the lookout while the thief is trying not to make eye contact.

If there are no thieves guilds outside the towns, there is probably no thieves there either.
The country sides is dominated by bandits/brigands who use force rather than stealth.
Here's a city. You can bet there are beggars and thieves there.
Here's a village. There might be a beggar or two, doing the rounds. There are probably not thieves as everybody knows everybody else.
For an elven thief you have to consider the background.
The thief could be from a human town.
A thief from the woodlands who knows how to pick locks might not make sense.

I realized quickly that thieves didn't fit in my starting hamlet, but scouts were a good match.
They learn their trade in the local militia and run patrols outside the village boundaries.
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LleijS
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Re: Scouts Supplement

Post Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:49 am

Interesting conversation concerning meta-game design. Here's how I categorize things in my mind: From its early days, D&D designed adventures around two major 'battlespaces', dungeons and wilderness. The classic Big Four classes were designed to function best in dungeons, as that was the first 'battlespace' the game was designed around. As wilderness adventures and campaigns became more common, some of the original classes were given a 'wilderness' twist to allow players to create characters who would specialize and thrive in this new battlespace. Thus a druid could be seen as 'wilderness cleric', a barbarian could be seen as a 'wilderness fighter', rangers could be seen as a 'wilderness Elf' (sounds weird, I know), and scouts as a 'wilderness thief'. Magic-Users are a special case in that as a glass cannon in the lower levels they are equally advantaged and disadvantaged in both battlespaces. This is a similar situation for all classes when they encounter the 'urban' battlespace.

Thoughts?
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Solomoriah
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Re: Scouts Supplement

Post Sat May 08, 2021 11:13 am

Announcing!

Scouts: A Basic Fantasy Supplement Italian Translation, Release 4-it1 -- May 08, 2021
Thanks to the Italian translation team for this new translation of this supplement!

https://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html#scouts
My personal site: www.gonnerman.org
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Solomoriah
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Re: Scouts Supplement

Post Sat May 08, 2021 11:26 am

Announcing!

Scouts: A Basic Fantasy Supplement German Translation, Release 4-de1 -- May 08, 2021
Thanks to the German translation team for this new translation of this supplement!

https://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html#scouts
My personal site: www.gonnerman.org
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