Finding Find Familiar

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LibraryLass
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Re: Finding Find Familiar

Post Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:18 am

I was picturing something a little cuter, myself.
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SmootRK
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Re: Finding Find Familiar

Post Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:30 am

LibraryLass wrote:I was picturing something a little cuter, myself.
Those cute winged cats are a Forgotten Realms thing... Tessrym or something like that. 8-)

But, they can be cute! :D
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LibraryLass
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Re: Finding Find Familiar

Post Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:59 am

A little black kitty with wings and huge bat ears and a little white skull on his head! :D
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Fabio_MP
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Re: Finding Find Familiar

Post Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:00 pm

Hi there :)

I was giving some thought to this, and there is one thing I would change: the bonus to spell is too low (specially if you are not using bonus spell from high Int); I would give at least 1 spell at 1st level, maybe I would go for something like this, at minimum:
wiz........bonus spells/storing......
lev........1st.....2nd.....3rd......4th
1-5........+1
6-10......+1.......+1
11-15....+1.......+1.......+1
16+.........1......1.........1.........1

This said, some other sources:
Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerer of Hyrborea: here "mage" get int bonus spell and also scribe scroll
Magician’s Familiar: To summon a singular animal (typically a bat, cat, owl, rat, or raven) of 1d3+1 hp to function as a familiar. So long as the familiar is within 120 range (feet indoors, yards outdoors), the magician can see and hear through the animal (though the sight is a narrowly focused “tunnel vision”, and sounds reverberate thinly and metallically); can add its hp total to his own; and can memorize one extra spell of each spell level he is able to cast (e.g., a 5th-level magician gains bonus spells of levels 1, 2, and 3). The familiar fights only in self-defence; if it dies, the magician takes 1 hp damage per level and cannot summon another for 1d4 months.
Witch’s Familiar: To summon a minor dæmon, which takes animal form of less than 1 HD (typically a bat, cat, owl, rat, or raven), to function as a familiar. The witch and her familiar share a spiritual bond of unlimited range. Through the animal the witch can see and hear, though the sight is a narrowly focused “tunnel vision”, and sounds reverberate thinly and metallically. The familiar has a perfect morale score (12) and always attends and abides the will of its master. The witch must make a death saving throw if the familiar is killed. A failed saving throw results in 3d6 hp damage sustained; if the saving throw is failed by a margin of 5 or more, the witch dies. Even if the witch survives, loss of a familiar is physically and emotionally draining for the witch, and she must wait at least one year before a new familiar can be sought.
In the "Witch Sourcebook for basic edition fantasy games" each familiar give one more spell (a witch can have ore than 1 familiar here) to memorize and let the witch speak with their kind of animals.
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SmootRK
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Re: Finding Find Familiar

Post Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:51 pm

interesting alternatives.

While I feel that additional spells would be good, I also ponder (as seen in the thread for MU Options) about giving too much. If one uses additional MU options (not meaning necessarily what is in that supplement) such as bonus spells for high prerequisite ability, alternate sub-classes with potentially more spell ability, or other such options that have not even been developed yet... then I fear a propagation of powers (and I feel like the stuff given in this supplement is pretty good overall). I would rather err on stingy and let folks house-rule it further on their own.

For instance, one could change the 1/3 level thing to something like 1/2 or some other alternate progression... but I am not going to hard-wire that into the document.
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Fabio_MP
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Re: Finding Find Familiar

Post Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:19 am

I understand the fear of power creep, but to give fixed bonus spell is more controllable in my opinion, as pointed out in some other thread one problem can be to have too many 1st level spell at higher levels (since we have Magic Missile that scale in power as pointed out in the section).

I think that it would be less powerful, and more useful, to have +1 spell per spell level with a cap on maximum spell level than to give bonus in proportion to the level of the wizard.

so giving a fixed additional spell at controlled levels (1st - 3rd for example) vs the proportional one we would have this situation on 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells
wiz......fixed bonus.........proportional bonus
1st ......2.......................1
2nd......3.......................2
3rd......3-2.....................3-1
5th......3-3-1...................3-2-1
6th......4-3-3...................5-2-2
9th......4-4-3-2-1...............5-4-2-2-1
12th.....5-5-4-3-2-2............6-6-3-3-2-2
15th.....6-5-5-3-3-2............7-6-5-3-3-2
18th.....7-6-5-4-3-3............9-7-6-4-3-3

as you can see with proportional bonus you are having escalating number of spells at higher level while you have no bonus at lower levels (where they are more needed), obviously with a bonus equal to 1/2 level the problem would worsen.
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SmootRK
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Re: Finding Find Familiar

Post Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:12 pm

You may be right, but one of my (sorta unspoken) goals was to give the familiar some degree of existence as an NPC in a manner, somewhat following the track of a real character (with respect to spell progression and ability to use such powers themselves)... almost more like Henchmen; somebody that the GM can utilize for role-play and interaction (and some craziness during combats to boot).

Remember also, that it is very much on-purpose that I am giving BFRPG it very own take on this. I believe that BFRPG is only enhanced when we can produce something original to the system, while still remaining true to very old school style or mentality. It is quite deliberate that I do not duplicate or emulate some other systems because of this (though I do find the varying approaches interesting for ideas).

I will revisit this after some time to give me a chance to bring all this together in my mind and see if any changes might improve it.

Of course, how one uses the ideas and further house-rules it themselves is certainly OK and I would expect such to occur in order for the material to suit particular tastes. The idea is to provide tools and perhaps frameworks for others to work with.
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Fabio_MP
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Re: Finding Find Familiar

Post Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:27 am

OK :)

I like your idea (to make the familiar growing like an henchman, getting more and more a life of his own)

but since it is a familiar and not a spell-caster in its own right maybe it would be more characterizing if you make a list of powers, sort of a "familiar" class

I am just thinking of it as I write so bear with me :)

bond (with backlash effect)
+1 hp/wizard level
save as wizard
communicate with wizard
longevity (age as wizard)
spell storing (1 spell per spell/level or whatever)
extended communication (the bond grow in power and distance covered)
.....

and so on :)
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SmootRK
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Re: Finding Find Familiar

Post Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:01 am

That could be interesting. Perhaps a graduated list of powers available to the Familiar (indirectly to the MU) based upon the level of the MU.

I think I need to dwell on this...

One things that comes to mind this way, is that all familiars will be rather "same" instead of variability that comes from the MU spell list.

And, to be honest, for the overwhelming majority of players using the familiar, we are talking about a couple of 1st level spells, perhaps a 2nd. Higher level players will find the spells less and less useful (diminishing returns so to say). When the Player is 10th level the familiar is effectively 3rd level (having 2 first and 1 second level spell usable)... when the player is tossing a couple fireballs and such around. The imbalance of these diminishing returns continue to worsen, as the PC spell caster increases, acquires magical items, and his adventuring companions (other player characters) contribute as well.

While you are right on a point by point comparison or demonstration of the additional power, the actual usefulness of such powers become less relevant in real practice. "A Power that is not really used ever, is really not affecting balance at that point".
Just some of my personal theory regarding some things.
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Fabio_MP
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Re: Finding Find Familiar

Post Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:06 am

I was thinking more of a proper class that can choose powers from his own list, maybe even in the form of spells but with a little less bang and more usability characterization... must think of it :)

If a player is ok with the added complication of a familiar can also keep track of his new powers each level :)
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