Combat Options Supplement

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artikid
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Re: Combat Options Supplement

Post Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:32 am

Brawler (unarmed style specialists)
Impart a -4 ST penalty to those trying to escape their hold, and may inflict unarmed damage on armored enemies even if wearing leather or no armor.
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Dimirag
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Re: Combat Options Supplement

Post Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:29 am

I would divide the Wrestler and Brawler specialties.

How about using this table to help avoiding confusion on the Two Weapon usage.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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artikid
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Re: Combat Options Supplement

Post Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Dimirag wrote:I would divide the Wrestler and Brawler specialties...
Personally I'd treat them as different "weapons" for specialization, but as long as we are talking about fighting styles I'd keep them together.
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Longman
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Re: Combat Options Supplement

Post Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:17 pm

LL,

I agree with artikid that purchasing different fighting styles by spending proficiency slots is the way to go. My own house system for BF does this, but it grants them sooner than the supplement does (every 3 levels instead of 4). Because, OP.

(Personally I also think spending slots should apply to two weapon fighting, mounted combat, using your Dex instead of Strength in combat, and shield bash. These are things not everyone can do. You have to buy a proficiency slot. But I'm aware that would radically change the system.)

I dislike the idea of split round (3/2) attacks, as well. I have no ready solution, though. You could make the purchase of an extra attack a proficiency in itself (Swift Attack)? It could have at least two ranks of specialization in that weapon as a prerequisite. That's the option I am thinking of using in my own game, but I haven't done the maths yet.

One thing about including called shot rules for trip and disarm - the inclusion of a both -4 penalty and a save looks a bit harsh to me, especially for trip. Can you specify exactly what happens to a disarmed weapon? Also, how do you rule on what happens to a trip victim, in your own games? If the victim is tripped in front of a queue of characters who have all yet to act, that's an obvious disadvantage. But in many other situations, like a one-on-one, all that happens is that they stand back up again on their turn, and nothing much would happen at all.
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LibraryLass
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Re: Combat Options Supplement

Post Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:50 am

artikid wrote:
Solomoriah wrote:I will withhold my decision until you reach a final stage.

In other words, carry on. I'm liking what Artikid is saying here.
Thanks,
I've got a new suggestion for 2 handed weapon specialists:
If you hit your opponent for 10 or more damage points he is slammed and next round will act last.
I'm not a big fan of that. I think a minor benefit that's useful often is more worthwhile than a somewhat larger benefit that only rarely will take effect...
Dimirag wrote:I would divide the Wrestler and Brawler specialties.

How about using this table to help avoiding confusion on the Two Weapon usage.
Hm. Pretty good table.
Longman wrote:LL,

I agree with artikid that purchasing different fighting styles by spending proficiency slots is the way to go. My own house system for BF does this, but it grants them sooner than the supplement does (every 3 levels instead of 4).
Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking making them separate in the first place.
(Personally I also think spending slots should apply to two weapon fighting, mounted combat, using your Dex instead of Strength in combat, and shield bash. These are things not everyone can do. You have to buy a proficiency slot. But I'm aware that would radically change the system.)
Probably sensible but maybe a bit late now.
I dislike the idea of split round (3/2) attacks, as well. I have no ready solution, though. You could make the purchase of an extra attack a proficiency in itself (Swift Attack)? It could have at least two ranks of specialization in that weapon as a prerequisite. That's the option I am thinking of using in my own game, but I haven't done the maths yet.
I'm not much of a fan of prerequesites like that-- that way lies the complex character-building metagame of 3e. Furthermore I'm trying to stay true to Solo's intent that everything in Combat Options hypothetically can be used together or picked out a la carte so I'm not planning on providing any alternate rules.
One thing about including called shot rules for trip and disarm - the inclusion of a both -4 penalty and a save looks a bit harsh to me, especially for trip. Can you specify exactly what happens to a disarmed weapon? Also, how do you rule on what happens to a trip victim, in your own games? If the victim is tripped in front of a queue of characters who have all yet to act, that's an obvious disadvantage. But in many other situations, like a one-on-one, all that happens is that they stand back up again on their turn, and nothing much would happen at all.
Those rules aren't mine, they're in the previous release, however I can provide you my personal rulings that I would apply as a GM.

I agree that both a penalty to the attack and a savingD throw seems like it might be slightly too many hoops to jump through to be really viable.

As to the effects of a disarm I would say that the item or object held falls to the ground in the space of the former holder-- though I might allow a character with one free hand to snatch the item or weapon instead.

Incidentally, the core rules mention falling prone when they describe the effects of an oil slick, but not what being prone means as far as the rules are concerned-- that may be a worthwhile sentence or two to add in the next release. Anyway, I would generally say that a prone character, whether they fell due to slipping on something or being tripped by an opponent, takes a penalty to their AC and attack rolls until they stand up, and they must use their action to stand up again.

(To be honest, lately instead of granting specific numerical bonuses or penalties due to circumstance, I've become interested in using the Advantage/Disadvantage system from 5e.)
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Dimirag
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Re: Combat Options Supplement

Post Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:06 pm

FIGHTING STYLES (recap + new ideas)

One-handed Weapon Specialization: When rolling 9-14 on the d20 of an attack roll you can add a d6 to that attack.
Weapon and Shield Specialization: Whenever you are hit you can add 1d6 to your AC in hope of blocking the attack.
Two-handed Weapon Specialization: Use the better of of the damage roll or a d6 roll, then add any bonus or roll damage two times and use the better.
Two-Weapon Specialization: Allows to wield up to medium weapons in the of hand.
Pole Weapon Specialization: The chance to attack opponents that are executing a fighting withdrawal or the ability to attack from behind a companion?
Missile Weapon Specialization: The chance to employ missile weapons when within 5' of enemies without a -5 penalty.
Light Weapon Specialization: Able to use the DEX bonus instead of the STR one on attack rolls.
Entrapment Weapon Specialization: -4 saving throw penalty maybe?
Unarmed Master: -4 ST penalty to those trying to escape wrestling holds. May inflict unarmed damage on armored enemies even if wearing leather or no armor.

Ambusher Combat Style: Increases surprise chances by 1 when using nonmetal armor, gains a +2 attack and damage bonus on the first attack of a successful surprise attack.
Berserk Combat Style: +2 attack and damage bonus, once started must attack until no enemies are available.
Swashbuckling Combat Style: When using nonmetal armor and lightly loaded gains a +2 to AC and can move thru obstacles like furniture.
Gladiatorial Combat Style: Gives a +2 Morale and Loyalty bonus of his underlings while fighting opponents.
Duelist Combat Style: Gives a +2 Init and Attack bonus when fighting one on one.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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Solomoriah
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Re: Combat Options Supplement

Post Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:31 pm

Okay, so I like the idea of fighting styles... but I'd like to keep Combat Options small. Can we break that out into a separate supplement, at least for development?
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Longman
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Re: Combat Options Supplement

Post Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:53 pm

I like Dimirag's list. This is pretty much the sort of thing I run with. A unified system where everything is covered by proficiency slots. If 'Fighting Style Options Supplement' becomes a thing, I'd like some input.

Anyway, I would generally say that a prone character, whether they fell due to slipping on something or being tripped by an opponent, takes a penalty to their AC and attack rolls until they stand up, and they must use their action to stand up again.

I go further than this. I'd say that they have the AC penaltyfor the whole of the next round.

Even then, I'm not sure it is really worthwhile to trip someone most of the time. You are basically spending a round making a called shot at -4 so you can get an attack at +4? Why not just hit them and call it even? Unless you are trying to set them up to be pounded by multiple attackers...

Maybe if the rules specified that the trip attack ignored armor, that would be different. It might be a useful way to get at someone who you had little chance of hitting otherwise.

But as you say, a lot of this starts to head towards 3.5. I'm starting to like "advantage'' as well, as a handy way to cover all sorts of situations.
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LibraryLass
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Re: Combat Options Supplement

Post Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:23 pm

Solomoriah wrote:Okay, so I like the idea of fighting styles... but I'd like to keep Combat Options small. Can we break that out into a separate supplement, at least for development?
Sure, I'll ditch that in my new draft (which I'm doing right now.)

EDIT: Though I think there's room in Combat Options for something much... simpler, something more like I originally offered (though tightened up a little), but this is getting way outside of what I envisioned. What Dimirag wants seems much more elaborate than what I want.

EDIT EDIT: If I decided I only wanted to keep one type of cleaving in the next draft, which one would everyone prefer? I personally prefer type 1, but if there's more demand for type 2, I'll go with the herd on it.

(For reference:)
Cleaving variant 1 wrote:Whenever a character kills or incapacitates an opponent with an attack, they may immediately make another attack against one other opponent within 5' of the one they have just defeated. The additional attack must be made with the same weapon as the attack that felled the previous opponent. The attacker may move up to 5' between attacks, provided that they have enough movement remaining to do so during this round.

Fighters may cleave as many times per round as they have hit dice. Clerics and thieves may cleave only once per round. Magic-Users ordinarily cannot cleave. At the GM's option, certain monsters may also be capable of cleaving.
Cleaving variant 2 wrote:Whenever a character kills or incapacitates an opponent with an attack, if the amount of damage dealt was greater than the remaining hit points of the opponent, then the leftover damage may carry over to another opponent within 5' of the first, provided that the original attack roll was high enough to hit that opponent as well.
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Dimirag
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Re: Combat Options Supplement

Post Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:59 pm

Its not that I want a more elaborate system, I was merely expanding the given ideas, I'm ok with using a simplified form and creating a new Supplement.

Cleave op 1 reminds me of the one from ACKS, but I prefer op n°2 as its simpler to use and don't create an oportunity for overpowering the fighters
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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