New Spells Supplement

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Solomoriah
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:46 am

It's not a matter of "ancient." Design decisions were made in the BX era, and omitting Wish as a spell was one of them (though I think it was later restored in the BECMI era). It's part of how we played back then; with Wish not being a spell, it can be more powerful and more dangerous. And if I don't have Wish, I don't want Limited Wish either not because of its power level but because of the name.
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daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:15 am

Of the other three spells, I still have no interest in Vision. It just seems totally thematically wrong. Plus, for a seventh level spell, you just get so little out of it even if you succeed, and those odds are not good. So, I still see that out as out.

On the other hand, I really want to include the Prismatic spells, even as "unlisted extras". Unfortunately, my main complaint about them, that they manifest effects that are completely unjustified based on their other abilities, still stands. I don't like that they can cause heat, fire, acid, petrification, poison, and whatever else when an illusion otherwise has zero ability to get those effects. It should build on their prior abilities, not just make other stuff up with no foundation.

That said, if they can be instead made to invoke powers that Illusionists have been shown to have, I'd be in. Think of it being like a super-duper version of Color Spray or something like that. Maybe it can randomly cause various condition effects (obviously, each would have to be written out as BFRPG has no "conditions") instead of the original effects. Would that work?

If so, I'd use the pair to replace Longevity and Shades or Raise Shade. In other words, I can easily make room for them. I just want to know if it'd be worth the effort.
daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:18 am

Solo,

One side question: Is the complete lack of divination/augury type spells intentional, too? I see a complete lack of "ask the gods/powers" spells and was assuming that is intentional. Is it?

How about scry? I am proposing it as a one-off spell to allow for crystal ball activity without an actual magic item, but if those spells are being intentionally avoided, I can drop that spell quickly.

Thanks!
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:26 am

The Cleric has Commune which is *the* "ask the gods" spell.

The Magic-User has Clairvoyance.

Crystal ball is in the core rules.

Yeah, I'm not sure either.
daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:49 pm

Clairvoyance doesn't count, as it is just "look on the other side of the wall". A crystal ball-level Scry is something I am asking for. Neither is "ask other powers". I do want to know if Scry's exclusion was intentional, though.

I did miss Commune. Fair point. I was looking for the lower level stuff like Augury. I was looking for the bushes and missed the sequoia! I was also looking at the 1e Vision spell, which is awful. (Let's see, roll 2d6. On a 2-6, you get no answer, but still have to do some massive side-quest. On a 7-9 you get an answer, but not to your question. Only on a 10-12 do you get your actual question answered. Maybe. For a seventh level spell. Not impressive.) The 3.5 Vision spell is more reasonable, but based on a spell (Legend Lore) that is not (uh, hold on, let me check ... OK) not in the game. Plus, it isn't particularly "illusion-y" in my mind. For Vision to be "illusion-y", I would think the Illusionist should be giving the vision, not receiving the vision.

Oooo. There is that. Maybe Vision could really be an improved version of Dream. The Illusionist can then send the message whether the recipient is asleep or not and it will just take over their brain whether the recipient wants it to or not. I'd be down for that version of Vision.

EDIT: In fact, when I get to detailing the Illusionist seventh level spells, I am *definitely* using this version of Vision. Not only does the illusionist send the message, but the message itself can be composed of its own illusion. So, if you are particularly bold, you can leave your own (false) "message from God". I really like version of Vision now.
Seven
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:17 pm

I like how you boldly rework spells.

Clairvoyance is not "look on the other side of the wall". It's more like "enter the brain of a creature and spy through its eyes". I also like that.
daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:51 pm

Of course I "boldly rework spells" when needed. I tend to hew pretty closely to the versions I find, but if they aren't working, and I like the base idea, sure, I'll get creative.

Which, incidentally, how a lot of BFRPG already works. Take, for example, Clairvoyance. In any other version of the game I am familiar with*, Clairvoyance is just the ability to remotely see somewhere else. Only in BFRPG are you able to "hijack" someone else's eyes and see through them. (Unless this is some BD&D thing I am not familiar with.) Which is why I forgot how the BFRPG one works: it's different and I haven't played a Magic-User yet, so I haven't had to burn the difference into my mind.

* I checked 1e, OSRIC (1e clone), Gold&Glory (2e clone), 3.5 SRD, 5e SRD.
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Solomoriah
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:17 pm

daryen wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:49 pm
Clairvoyance doesn't count, as it is just "look on the other side of the wall". A crystal ball-level Scry is something I am asking for. Neither is "ask other powers". I do want to know if Scry's exclusion was intentional, though.
In the sense that the coverage target rules did not include it, yes, it was intentional. But New Spells adds many spells that are missing in the core for that reason. A spell that replicates the effect of a crystal ball would be fine with me.
daryen wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:49 pm
Take, for example, Clairvoyance. In any other version of the game I am familiar with*, Clairvoyance is just the ability to remotely see somewhere else. Only in BFRPG are you able to "hijack" someone else's eyes and see through them. (Unless this is some BD&D thing I am not familiar with.) Which is why I forgot how the BFRPG one works: it's different and I haven't played a Magic-User yet, so I haven't had to burn the difference into my mind.
It was a possible interpretation of the very vague 0e spell description, and works more or less exactly like BFRPG in the BX/BE era rules.
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daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:51 am

OK, let's lay out the Cleric seventh level spells.

First, I am changing the list. I had a mistake (they already have Heal) and I didn't like Symbol of Death. So, I've fixed the list and am much happier with the results. Here are my (now) recommended seventh level spells.

We can deal this these three summarily:
1 - Anti-Magic Shell
5 - Holy Word
7 - Ring of Healing, Greater
#5 and #7 are already assigned to as seventh level cleric spells in New Spells. Anti-Magic is an existing Magic-User spell, so I assuming its good to go, too.

The new spells are:
2 - Control Weather - This allows the cleric to outright control the weather, rather than make more minor changes to it. This will be shared with the Druid.
3 - Earthquake - This causes a localized but very powerful earthquake. This is traditional cleric spell with "biblical" origins. This will be shared with the Druid.
4 - Fire Storm - A vertical column of divine fire. It does the standard 1d6 per level of damage with no limit. Caster can choose what to include and what to not include. (So, for example, just the people get consumed, but all inanimate objects are completely unaffected.) It is also "biblical" and visually very impressive.
6 - Resurrection - This is an upgraded Raise Dead. Raise dead restores life to the old body. Resurrection reforms the body, so this is kinda like Raise Dead + Heal all wrapped into one spell. In theory it allows for someone to have been dead longer, but that isn't necessarily required.
8 - Wind Walk - Another very classic cleric spell. In theory, this could be sixth level, but since that isn't going to change, I put it here.

None of these should be out of line at all. The only one you might want some limit on is Resurrection, but since Raise Dead, Heal, and Regeneration are all present, it should be fine as long as there is a cap on how long dead the person can be.

Note that I specifically avoided anything that had to do with planar travel. So, not Astral Projection, no Ethereal, no Gate, nothing like that. If those are allowed, I would suggest adding Astral Projection and Gate as extra spells that have to be researched or given by the diety.
daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:38 pm

I'm going to do Druid next, but before I get to the arcane casters, I have a question: Should the arcane casters get 8 or 10 spells? Originally (as can be seen from the suggested seventh level spells I posted earlier), I was planning on just giving everyone 8 seventh level spells. This was because that's what the Magic-User got in New Spells. However, I am thinking that, while 8 makes the most sense for Cleric and Druid (since they have 8 of every other spell level), the Magic-User and its derivatives should all have 10 spells per level. Does this make sense? Is this reasonable? Or should I just stick with 8 for everyone?
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