New Spells Supplement

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daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:32 am

In light of other discussions, I'd like to propose several new spells for the New Spells Supplement. I will divide this into two posts following this one. The first will cover seventh level spells and the second will include some requests for additional non-seventh level spells.

On the seventh level spells, the prior discussions said that the New Spells Supplement should cover the other spellcasters in the main Downloads page, not just Clerics and Magic-Users. So, that is what these lists do. I am using the example of the Magic-User and giving everyone 8 seventh level spells. This means the Magic-User isn't getting anything new, as they are the standard everything else is based on. The 6 seventh level spells that are being removed from the Necromancer Supplement are being moved here, plus they are getting two more.

Note that I am including Spellcrafters in this effort. Spellcrafters are presented at the same level as the other three (Druids, Illusionists, and Necromancers), so I am making sure to include them in this list.

On the extra spells, the primary focus is on Druids and Magic-Users. There are a couple for Clerics, too. There aren't any for Necromancers or, especially, Illusionists as I have used up pretty much everything I could find to fill out their actual Supplements. Also, I have tried to make this list as short as possible, meaning there are several spells I'd like to see, but I am shunting them all to Libram Magica. Even if the list has to be shortened even more, know that it is way shorter than what I started with. There are none for Spellcrafters, either. Note that Illusionists, Necromancers, and (especially) Spellcrafters can probably pick up some Magic-User spells with little difficulty.
daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:35 am

Here are the seventh level spells.

Below codes mean:
C - Core
N - Necromancer Supplement (previous)
NS - New Spells Supplement (pre-existing)

Cleric Seventh Level Spells
1 - Anti-Magic Shell (C)
2 - Control Weather - control the weather
3 - Earthquake - cause an earthquake
4 - Fire Storm - create a column of fire
5 - Holy Word (NS)
6 - Resurrection - fully raise and restore a dead person
7 - Ring of Healing, Greater (NS)
8 - Wind Walk - turn the whole party into vapor and travel fast
EDIT: I have deleted Heal and Symbol of Death and replaced them with Control Weather and Wind Walk. Heal is already done in the Core Rules and Symbol of Death didn't feel right. Control Weather and Wind Walk are both very classic Cleric spells, so I used them instead.

Druid Seventh Level Spells
1 - Ring of Healing, Greater (NS)
2 - Changestaff - turn your staff to a Treant
3 - Conjure Elemental - summon an elemental
4 - Control Weather - control the weather
5 - Creeping Doom - carpet of death by insect
6 - Earthquake - cause an earthquake
7 - Regeneration (C)
8 - Transmute Metal to Wood - turn a bunch of metal to wood

Illusionist
1 - Demand - super-suggestion
2 - Insanity - permanent confusion
3 - Longevity (NS)
4 - Scintillating Pattern - messes with people's heads
5 - Screen - complete protection from scrying
6 - Shades - summon semi-real shadow monsters that still hurt
7 - Vision - super-dream; sends a powerful vision
8 - Weird - mass phantasmal killer
EDIT: While making changes, I have removed Raise Shade (leaving it in Libram Magica) and replaced it with this version of Vision.

Necromancer
1 - Call Horseman (N)
2 - Finger of Death - point 'n' die
3 - Invisibility, Mass (N)
4 - Longevity (N)
5 - Phase Door (N)
6 - Power Word Stun (N)
7 - Symbol of Death - symbol that kills everything in range
8 - Wychlamp Aura (NS)

Spellcrafter
1 - Dominate Construct - completely control a construct
2 - Longevity (NS)
3 - Mage's Disjunction - disenchant an item
4 - Major Creation - can make larger or more complex object than minor creation
5 - Phase Door (NS)
6 - Sword (NS)
7 - Word of Recall (C)
8 - Wychlamp Aura (NS)
Last edited by daryen on Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:37 am

Additional Spells:
Cleric
2 - Restore Health - (from Libram Magica) needed to allow for healing of conditions
3 - Cure Deafness - companion for cure blindness
3 - Water Walk - pretty biblical, plus very handy

Magic-User
1 - Mage Armor - alternative protection than just shield; effectively a replacement for the current stoneskin
1 - Mount - allows for quicker movement; great utility spell
1 - Unseen Servant - great utility spell; kind of a "lesser telekenesis"
4 - Scrying - a magic ball without a magic ball; is strangely missing
5 - Dominate Person - super-charm person; what most people think charm person is supposed to do
5 - Stoneskin - what stoneskin is supposed to be like
6 - Analyze Dweomer - finally allows a magic-user to actually and truly identify a magic item

Druid
1 - Goodberry - "create food" for a druid; otherwise missing
1 - Shillelagh - classic weapon augmentation
2 - Barkskin - druid's version of mage armor
2 - Tree - can turn into a small tree
3 - Quench - puts out fires, even magical fires; missing ability
6 - Liveoak - turns a tree into a treant for a while
6 - Repel Wood - forces wood away; teams well with transmute metal to wood
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Solomoriah
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:55 am

New Spells is distinct from Libram Magica because I personally selected all the spells, paying careful attention to balance. This makes this situation tricky... I don't want to discourage you, these things need doing, but I want to be sure we maintain balance as much as possible.

You may assume that any spell already published on the Downloads page, i.e. those you are moving, are approved. Go ahead and just move them. However, I'd like a list of the spells you're adding, especially those you must create or convert from another source, so I can go over them.

Your work won't be wasted if you do spells I don't approve, as they will simply go to Libram Magica. This is assuming that we can't rework the spells to suit me.

I don't want to be a dictator or a jerk or anything, I'm just very protective of the Downloads page items, especially anything players get to use. The fastest way to screw up a good game is to allow an unbalanced class, and a bad spell is #2.
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daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:12 pm

You are being protective of the overall effort, and that is one of the things I like about BFRPG. So, I totally understand. Also, please know that is why I am posting so much stuff first before submitting anything is so that I can try to clear up as much beforehand as possible. My goal is to make this as easy as possible on you (and the other reviewers).

What I will do is break things down in much smaller chunks so that it can be more easily reviewed. In fact, I will flip my approach and start with the "extra" spells first, then hit the seventh level spells one at a time. I'll have to do the seventh level spells later.
Last edited by daryen on Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:38 pm

I am going to start with the additional spells. I am also going to just eliminate some of them just to keep things more manageable.

Cleric
2 - Restore Health - (from Libram Magica) needed to allow for healing of conditions
3 - Cure Deafness - companion for cure blindness

I am deleting Water Walk, as that that easily live in Libram Magica. However, I really would like to see these two included. The reason is because there are many "condition" effect spells that happen, but there is no healing spell to clear them out. That's what Restore Health is for. In the 3.5SRD it is called Lesser Restoration. But, regardless of name it is a whole in the Cleric's (and Druid's) arsenal for curing party members, so it really should be promoted from Libram Magica and used here. Cure Deafness is also a missing item. There is a Cure Blindness, and this is kind of its companion. Both of these are, in my opinion, necessary to add to the Cleric's arsenal.

Magic-User
1 - Mage Armor - alternative protection than just shield; effectively a replacement for the current stoneskin
1 - Mount - allows for quicker movement; great utility spell
1 - Unseen Servant - great utility spell; kind of a "lesser telekenesis"
5 - Stoneskin - what stoneskin is supposed to be like

Let's divide the Magic-User spells into two. I think that "Stoneskin" should be more impressive and more like its ancestor spells. However, a lower-level version is needed, and Mage Armor fills that bill. It's a good companion to Shield, too, as it gives a second defensive spell Magic-Users can find (since they have to find all but their first spell) and it is omni-directional, unlike Shield. Stoneskin itself then becomes a much higher level spell with is then much more impressive.

I include Unseen Servant and Mount here, as they provide very useful utility spells. Unlike many other first level spells, a Magic-User will continue to use these two spells throughout their career, as a means of expeditious terrestrial travel (i.e. not fly or teleport) with Mount, and as a simple telekinesis utility spell. Both are completely non-combat, but both help with Magic-User immersion.

4 - Scrying - a magic ball without a magic ball; is strangely missing
5 - Dominate Person - super-charm person; what most people think charm person is supposed to do
6 - Analyze Dweomer - finally allows a magic-user to actually and truly identify a magic item

These spells are there to fill big holes in the collection of spells. Do note that if these holes are *intended*, then obviously they must be rejected. In reverse order, Analyze Dweomer is the only way to definitively determine what a magic item does without directly testing it (the YOLO method). Since it is a high level spell, either the characters are high enough level to deserve to be able to do this, or they are paying through the nose for someone to do this for them. There are other spells running around that allow domination, but not for base "people". Dominate person is where you can make someone do what they don't want to (though they get saves to stop it), unlike charm which just makes them friendly. It also provides good instruction because if you can only do something with this 5 level spell, then the 1 or 2 level spell obviously can't do it. Finally, for Scrying, it is basically just giving the spell caster the power of a crystal ball without the actual magic item. If you are intentionally limiting the availability of Scrying, then, yes, you need to reject this. But, without this, how are crystal balls even made? That's why I asked to include it.

Druid
1 - Goodberry - "create food" for a druid; otherwise missing
1 - Shillelagh - classic weapon augmentation
2 - Barkskin - druid's version of mage armor
2 - Tree - can turn into a small tree
3 - Quench - puts out fires, even magical fires; missing ability

I'm dividing the Druid spells into two groups, too. This first group is just standard "yeah, that's a druid" type spells. Goodberry is the Druid's way to get food in a pinch. It could need to be second level, but either way, it helps with that utility. Shillelagh and Barkskin are combat augmentation spells that help out a Druid. With Shillelagh, they always have a weapon if they can find/make a club. With Barkskin, they get some defensive help over their crappy armor. Tree allows them to take the form of a tree, which is their version of hiding or blending in. All of these are very Druid-y and part of the class since its introduction. Quench is a utility spell that is just completely missing right now, and it is suprisingly powerful as it affects magical fire in addition to normal fire. Again, it has been around for a long time, though under different names. (I am using the more modern 3.5 name.)

6 - Liveoak - turns a tree into a treant for a while
6 - Repel Wood - forces wood away; teams well with transmute metal to wood

These two are more powerful, so take more consideration. Liveoak is a very old spell that turns a big tree into an unintelligent treant. It also has a pretty decent duration, so it is a great minion spell, but it can run into limits. On the other hand, it could be viewed a slightly redundant with Changestaff (one of the seventh level spells). I understand if this one is kicked. Repel Wood is another classic that has very definite limits (only affects wood), but the force is very powerful. The reason I include it is because it pairs so well with Transmute Metal to Wood. But it is useful on its own, too. Both of these have pretty hard limits on what they can do (no Shapechange here!), but I am not yet familiar with the parameters you look at.

EDIT: Update: I dumped Dominate Person and Liveoak. The more I read Dominate Person the more I realized that it really belongs in Libram Magica because its power level has "hard edges" and tuning it for BFRPG might not be easy. Liveoak has some restrictions on usage that makes it more of a specialized spell. So, I'm kicking it to Libram Magica, too. The rest stay, including promoting Restore Health from Libram Magica.
Last edited by daryen on Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Seven
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:11 pm

When I think of 7th level illusionist spells, I think of stuff like Alter Reality, Prismatic Spray, Prismatic Wall, Vision. Things sure have changed.
daryen
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:56 pm

Seven wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:11 pm
When I think of 7th level illusionist spells, I think of stuff like Alter Reality, Prismatic Spray, Prismatic Wall, Vision. Things sure have changed.
I considered all four of those. I can easily be talked into them, too. But, ...

Alter Reality is just Limited Wish, which I want to note is not included. So, I didn't include Alter Reality. If I did, I'd have to include Wish/Limited Wish and Miracle. I got the impression those were intentionally excluded.

The Prismatic spells, by the reckoning of 3.5, are not illusionist spells. Plus, they manifest a whole bunch of powers the illusionist wouldn't otherwise have. I mean if one spell can do fireball, lightning bolt, poison, and a whole bunch more, why don't Illusionists have those base spells? I really wanted to use one or both of them, but I couldn't justify it.

Vision is again not really an illusion. It is asking an unknown power a question and getting very unreliable information back. Again, it was very tempting, but I just couldn't justify it.

So, please know I really did look at them. I just couldn't pull the trigger on any of them.

EDIT: BTW, I am not being defensive. I really have put thought into each of these spells I am suggesting, including those not included. If I miss something, great. However, I always enjoy showing my work, so to say, so please challenge my choices here if you think I am missing something.
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Solomoriah
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:44 pm

Wish and its family are not included as spells, by design. The original coverage target game did not have them and made it clear that wishes were very special things, more powerful than any spell. For that reason I made the decision never to include them in BFRPG. Alter Reality is in the same category, so yeah, it stays out too.

On the other hand, never think that the "reckoning of 3.5" means a single thing here. The Illusionist is a trimmed-down version of the "advanced" illusionist, meant to be power-matched to BFRPG, and done specifically because I like playing illusionists (but GMs cringe when I do).
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Seven
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Re: New Spells Supplement

Post Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:37 am

Well, Limited Wish debuted in Supplement 1: Greyhawk, so it's pretty ancient.

The original version is mostly used to duplicate other spells and not create permanent things, so it's hard to see it as game breaking.
Still, it's clearly a really good spell to have, and I have little experience in balancing high level PCs. The puny little things keep dying on me. Or maybe I'm too greedy on the XP. I look at it mostly as something for the antagonists to have and maybe that's not the right way to look at it.
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