Character Class Focuses Supplement

Creating game materials? Monsters, spells, classes, adventures? This is the place!
User avatar
Longman
Posts: 3591
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:12 am

Re: Character Class Focuses Supplement

Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:28 pm

Looks like some good ideas to me.

A suggestion - expand your existing statement noting that versions many of these ideas are also present in other supplements (Combat Options Supplement, etc) and that the GM should pick carefully which supplement to use to avoid having overlapping rules in operation.

See the intro to Smoot's Quasi classes for an example of this kind of text.

It's not that likely, but it is possible that a newbie GM could pick this up, and also run characters with bonuses from other supplements, and end up with absurdly high bonuses for low level characters.

EDIT - on closer inspection I see you already have a statement to that effect but it didn't leap out at me the way Smoot's did.
k_ba
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:44 pm

Re: Character Class Focuses Supplement

Post Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:58 pm

Maybe a longer disclaimer at the front? I hear you on overpowered characters. Not a fan of the munchkin-izing / min-maxing of characters.

On that note,I am rethinking the attack on the Unarmed Master, as straight AB is too much, but .5 AB doesn't seem like enough. I may do a D8 at 7th level, and d10 at 15th level alongside the .5AB. Keeps it from being crazy at the beginning, but allows more progression later on, when everybody else is carrying tons of magical weapons.

Opinions?
User avatar
Dimirag
Posts: 2149
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:24 pm
Location: Buenos Aires (C.A.B.A.), Argentina
Contact:

Re: Character Class Focuses Supplement

Post Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:21 pm

I'm not fond of increased damage unless is a minimal amount and only useful on a handful of occasions.

I don't care for any disclaimer, GM should be able to mix and match anything they want and learn their result by their own, some minimal guidance or warning is, ok, but not a whole thing dedicated to it.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
User avatar
Longman
Posts: 3591
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:12 am

Re: Character Class Focuses Supplement

Post Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:59 pm

Maybe a longer disclaimer at the front?

A bit longer, yeah. Or just a bit of bold or underlined text. Several other supplements have this.

I'm mostly concentrating my comments here on the martial classes. The others look interesting, and I suspect they are not too OP. Some actually look UP to me.

Personally I think the focused master is definitely OP. +2 damage is really high at 1st level, maybe cut it to +1 and an additional +1 every 2 levels.

For the unarmed master, you could just say 1d6 damage at 1st level and an additional +1 damage every 2 levels thereafter (3rd, 5th, etc). That would save messing about with fractions. I'm not sure about changing the dice.

Also, you could specify that the unarmed attacks at level 3 can be either bludgeoning or piercing, and so on - give the character the option of which damage type they want to do. Eventually they will end up being able to do any type of damage they desire.

Also - the focus master has additional attack bonuses of +2. Does the unarmed master get this too? The focus master seems OP if he gets this and the others don't.

Maybe think about additional attacks as well or both types of masters. Normally an unarmed character would get these faster than an armed one. Ye Olde ''Flurrye of Blowes'', etc.

Finally - I would make both types of characters have an initial critical threat range of 20, and then add to it by 1 every 2 levels. Again, having 1.5 damage over such a wide range is OP at 1st level, in my opinion.

I like some of the ideas here - I particularly like the fact that your unarmed master can do different types of damage, and I like some of the tweaks to the other classes as well. Something like this would take a long time to playtest, to figure out of it was balanced, though.

All the best with it.
k_ba
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:44 pm

Re: Character Class Focuses Supplement

Post Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:55 am

I have been so focused on removing the OP that I didn't think about UP.

I am open to suggestions to balance out he UP.

I will probably spend some time at lunch today tweaking the focused and unarmed masters to make them slightly more balanced.
User avatar
Longman
Posts: 3591
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:12 am

Re: Character Class Focuses Supplement

Post Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:22 pm

OK - bear in mind that this is just one opinion you are getting here - it might pay to get a few others as well.

The beserker - most barbarian style characters I have ever seen will berserk or rage in about half the combats they are in. I suspect that if you keep the rule that they will attack a friend on a 1-5, they will do this often, and it will lose its fun. Maybe lower it to 1-2 - or, say that they will attack friends if no enemy is available within a single move. See the barbarian supplement for more ideas on that.

The holy warrior is OK I think. Especially in a campaign with lots of undead or demons.

Warrior Poet - I would do this a bit differently. Give him / her some poems or battlecries, that act as Aid or Bless spells. Being able to use magic user scrolls is not worth sacrificing the d8 hit points unless your game is full of scrolls.

Legionary - the range to knock people to the ground is huge. I'd make that a 19-20. Then again, in my games being prone gives people opportunity attacks on you when you stand up, so it is a major disadvantage. If you don't play it that way maybe it isn't such a big deal.

More later.
User avatar
Longman
Posts: 3591
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:12 am

Re: Character Class Focuses Supplement

Post Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:01 pm

And another post...

Focused thief - not quite sure what you mean by a 'level' in a skill. Thieves already have an optional rule of choosing which skills to increase. I think you need to talk in terms of percentage points here. A focused thief gets to add 30 additional points to one or two skills but must subtract 30 from one or two others?

Tomb Robber - I think I would say the lost thief skill was 'pick pockets'. Also - thieves only get a d4 in this system anyway so making them have -1 hp seems extreme.

Holy Fool is a bit OP - losing backstab is not such a big deal to get a full d6 and turning abilities.

etc..

Have you considered tweaking exp levels for these?
User avatar
Dimirag
Posts: 2149
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:24 pm
Location: Buenos Aires (C.A.B.A.), Argentina
Contact:

Re: Character Class Focuses Supplement

Post Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:44 pm

Tweaking XP levels are not the way to go IMO, it would make the focuses more like the standard sub-classes, I think adding special abilities and giving restrictions to the base class is the way to go.

Not all focuses should be playable on every campaign, so I don care in that respect for the Warrior Poet, but said that, I think giving him some abilities like the Bard's inspiration is more fitting.

For an arcane focus for the fighter you can take many other routes, from giving a really slow spell progression to give some minor magical powers.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
k_ba
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:44 pm

Re: Character Class Focuses Supplement

Post Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:40 pm

I think that the warrior poet will get the following tweaks.
-Ability to learn a spell from a scroll and use it once per day without loss of the scroll. Max 4 known at once - same spell level rules as before.
-Ability to cast light twice daily.
-Recites poetry, never sings. NOT A BARD. say it with me. NOT A BARD!

Focused master and unarmed master need to come together in terms of bonuses. These guys are physical nuts, but not gods.
-So, both will have every 4 levels = +1 to hit and damage bonus progressions. This is simple, and really easy to calculate. The damage bonus and to hit bonus top out at +5 at 17th level. 1=1,5=2,9=3,13=4,17=5
-Will also change the critical threat range to 20, to start, then add one, at 9,13 levels. That way at 13, both classes have 1.5x dmg on natural 18,19,20.
-Maybe a second attack available at 13th level for unarmed, 17th for focused.
-Unarmed totally dex powered for damage and to hit, and focused totally strength powered - even with ranged. More flavor.
-Focused masters make up for the unarmed armor by getting an additional +1 damage and to hit at first level and by being able to use magic weapons for their focal weapon.

Will clarify on focused thief. "Operates in their focus skill as a player of 5 levels higher. IE: 1st level uses the 6th level thief listing on the skill table."

Holy fool - will also lose hide, and pick pocket.

Berserk - attack friends on 1-3.

Legionary - knock down on 18-20

Tomb Robber - still thinking about options here.
User avatar
Dimirag
Posts: 2149
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:24 pm
Location: Buenos Aires (C.A.B.A.), Argentina
Contact:

Re: Character Class Focuses Supplement

Post Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:46 pm

k_ba wrote:I think that the warrior poet will get the following tweaks.
-Ability to learn a spell from a scroll and use it once per day without loss of the scroll. Max 4 known at once - same spell level rules as before.
-Ability to cast light twice daily.
-Recites poetry, never sings. NOT A BARD. say it with me. NOT A BARD!
BF does not use learning spell from scrolls...
Why light?
I know they are not bards, but their abilities are easily passes from one to the other, where a bard sing to put people in a certain humor the poet does it by reciting poetry.
Focused master and unarmed master need to come together in terms of bonuses. These guys are physical nuts, but not gods.
-So, both will have every 4 levels = +1 to hit and damage bonus progressions. This is simple, and really easy to calculate. The damage bonus and to hit bonus top out at +5 at 17th level. 1=1,5=2,9=3,13=4,17=5
-Will also change the critical threat range to 20, to start, then add one, at 9,13 levels. That way at 13, both classes have 1.5x dmg on natural 18,19,20.
-Maybe a second attack available at 13th level for unarmed, 17th for focused.
-Unarmed totally dex powered for damage and to hit, and focused totally strength powered - even with ranged. More flavor.
-Focused masters make up for the unarmed armor by getting an additional +1 damage and to hit at first level and by being able to use magic weapons for their focal weapon.
I'm ok with the attack/damage bonus, but no so much with the extra attacks. Or give one of them the bonuses and give the extra attack to the other.
I don't like the whole pure DEX/STR, a crossbow expert using STR? A heavy height boxer style using DEX?
Focused master don't have to make up for unarmed armor, they can use magic armors.

Don't try to balance a focus against each other, firs search balance against the core fighter, then against itself, and finally against the other focuses.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Post Reply