BFRPG Kickstarter

[Ogre]

I think Solo could (or should) endeavor to be a tad less "defensive" in some responses, at least in the manner in which he responds, but his rationales are sound. There is little need to endlessly tweak the CORE of this game. It has reached a point, where it really is ideal as the base of operations.

Don't misunderstand, as I am one who likes endless tinkering, adding of new stuff, and otherwise changing things to cater to my own campaigns... but one thing that I would get mad about, is if the foundations of my gaming was constantly evolving (for no reason other than to 'make it different'). One cannot build upon an unsteady base.

As far as I am concerned, the Core Rules should be iron-clad, so that we can work with it to mold our games in our own ways. I can layer on as much as I want, but don't change my rule set. No 3rd edition, moving onto 3.5 edition for me. But, I am happy to allow stylistic change, new and/or additional artwork, etc., just don't change the rules (of course, fixing errata is fine).

Well, there just is not perfect ruleset for everyone, what BFRPG does, that I like, is provide the core experience of the fantasy dungeon style rpg, the real heart of it, while being extremely malleable to adjust anything you want to opperate differently, and extremely easy to add on to.

But the core still needs to stay solid so to allow a basis of communication of these ideas, and once you start tweaking the core you will start alienating people, because I see that core and say yes that's it, let me add a few things and it's perfect, where you may see that core and say yes, that's it, let me remove a few things and it's perfect, and someone else might just say, that's perfect.

[Hywaywolf]

In my opinion, the core rules are perfect. And the way that the supplements have been created have made most of them perfectly congruous with the core rules. So I would hate to see a 3rd edition. In fact, I hate calling this one a second edition because its not really a new edition with new rules and new ideas. Its just the completed rule set and "1st edition" was like a BETA edition. So if anything does get done with a "3rd edition" I would rather it just be called BFRPG (no edition number) and remove the previous books from the download page.

What you say in the second paragraph is exactly how BFRPG came to be the great game that it is. Lots of input and a guy at the head who wasn't trying to please everybody individually, but when nearly everybody agreed on something, he put it in. And everything else went into supplements, where it was posted on the board and everybody chewed through the suggested supplements to make them as comparable with the core rules as they can be.

As for a Kickstarter project, I would like to see something like the original game box I bought in 1981. The BFRPG ruleset, Morgansfort, some dice (no need for the crayon) and maybe a few figurines all in a colorful box.

[Ogre]

As for a Kickstarter project, I would like to see something like the original game box I bought in 1981. The BFRPG ruleset, Morgansfort, some dice (no need for the crayon) and maybe a few figurines all in a colorful box.

That would make me squee like a little girl.

But I completely understand wanting to keep this a hobby as well.

[Solomoriah]

Truly, Mr. Smoot, I chose well when I made you a moderator... you even know how to moderate me.

You might find my defensiveness a bit more understandable if you had seen ALL of the messages I've received telling me I need to change something. It really does get tedious. But what makes me the most irritable is this:

Someone tells me that something I've chosen to do should be changed. Not "I'd like it better this other way," but rather, "You should change this." You, Mr. Smoot, I would accept that from. You have contributed much to the game, and I rely on your opinions (even though I don't always follow your advice). But many of these messages came from people I never heard of before... their very first communication with me, and what do they do? Tell me to change what I've created to suit them. Bah.

You've given a very good reason why the Core Rules should change little, if at all, and I agree wholeheartedly with your thinking. But I'll state further that the look and feel of the game were chosen to mimic the game I started with. As I've said before, I actually don't like running text set in a Souvenir-style font... but the game doesn't look right any other way. As for the art, it's perfect, evoking just the right nostalgia, whether it's Steve Zeiser's rough-and-ready style or Artikid's clean-lined yet ever so slightly Erol Otus-like works, or any of the other pieces done by the many artists who have contributed. Erik Wilson created the color cover art with no more input from me than that I wanted a dragon in it, but he created a deliberately sketchy piece that perfectly evoked the feeling I wanted for the game.

Let me tell you all a little story. The "iconic characters" Darion, Morningstar, Apoqulis, and Barthal were all but one of them originally player characters in that game I started with. (Barthal is the odd halfling out.) When I asked Steve to do portraits of them, I gave him rough descriptions and left it to his imagination. Imagine my surprise when the picture of Morningstar so resembled the original player of that character that my wife (who knows said player) recognized her in it.

So everyone, please, try to understand, I will always react negatively to any suggestion to change the Core Rules, except for the most minor things such as adding art or correcting the errata. Nothing goes, and darn little gets changed.

I'm sure not going to reorganize the rules. For one thing, they're in the order I want them in. For another, before I reorganized them, I'd have to decide what order to put them in... and the many people who have asked for reorganization generally don't agree on how they want it. So my way is as good as anyone's.

[Solomoriah]

As for a Kickstarter project, I would like to see something like the original game box I bought in 1981. The BFRPG ruleset, Morgansfort, some dice (no need for the crayon) and maybe a few figurines all in a colorful box.

That would make me squee like a little girl.

But I completely understand wanting to keep this a hobby as well.

If I could do it through Lulu, I would. As it is, I know no way to get this done without handling orders myself.

[Ogre]

As for a Kickstarter project, I would like to see something like the original game box I bought in 1981. The BFRPG ruleset, Morgansfort, some dice (no need for the crayon) and maybe a few figurines all in a colorful box.

That would make me squee like a little girl.

But I completely understand wanting to keep this a hobby as well.

If I could do it through Lulu, I would. As it is, I know no way to get this done without handling orders myself.

Are you familiar with the gamecrafter?

It's for people who want to self publish board games but don't want to handle any of harry stuff.

https://www.thegamecrafter.com/shop

Not sure how well it would translate to an RPG starter, but seems doable, maybe worth a look.

[Hywaywolf]

I think the point of a kickstarter is that you raise enough money to convince an established distributor to do it for you if you didn't want to do all the work yourself or with people you hired with the money from the kickstarter.

[Steveman]

Fanboy thought just flashed through my mind. A Basic Fantasy line of minis from Reaper. O_O

[Ogre]

Truly, Mr. Smoot, I chose well when I made you a moderator... you even know how to moderate me.

You might find my defensiveness a bit more understandable if you had seen ALL of the messages I've received telling me I need to change something. It really does get tedious. But what makes me the most irritable is this:

Someone tells me that something I've chosen to do should be changed. Not "I'd like it better this other way," but rather, "You should change this." You, Mr. Smoot, I would accept that from. You have contributed much to the game, and I rely on your opinions (even though I don't always follow your advice). But many of these messages came from people I never heard of before... their very first communication with me, and what do they do? Tell me to change what I've created to suit them. Bah.

You've given a very good reason why the Core Rules should change little, if at all, and I agree wholeheartedly with your thinking. But I'll state further that the look and feel of the game were chosen to mimic the game I started with. As I've said before, I actually don't like running text set in a Souvenir-style font... but the game doesn't look right any other way. As for the art, it's perfect, evoking just the right nostalgia, whether it's Steve Zeiser's rough-and-ready style or Artikid's clean-lined yet ever so slightly Erol Otus-like works, or any of the other pieces done by the many artists who have contributed. Erik Wilson created the color cover art with no more input from me than that I wanted a dragon in it, but he created a deliberately sketchy piece that perfectly evoked the feeling I wanted for the game.

Let me tell you all a little story. The "iconic characters" Darion, Morningstar, Apoqulis, and Barthal were all but one of them originally player characters in that game I started with. (Barthal is the odd halfling out.) When I asked Steve to do portraits of them, I gave him rough descriptions and left it to his imagination. Imagine my surprise when the picture of Morningstar so resembled the original player of that character that my wife (who knows said player) recognized her in it.

So everyone, please, try to understand, I will always react negatively to any suggestion to change the Core Rules, except for the most minor things such as adding art or correcting the errata. Nothing goes, and darn little gets changed.

I'm sure not going to reorganize the rules. For one thing, they're in the order I want them in. For another, before I reorganized them, I'd have to decide what order to put them in... and the many people who have asked for reorganization generally don't agree on how they want it. So my way is as good as anyone's.

That's fine, you just can't assume everyone knows the history.

[peelseel2]

I love BFRPG. Out of all the "reto-clones" and simulacra, I keep coming back to BFRPG as the best organized, most complete system out there. That being said, I like Castles and Crusades. Despite themselves, what the Trolls have managed to produce is extraordinary. They are now through 4 "editions", all of which are (mostly) the same. Through each iteration they have produced a more marketable product every time.

What I am advocating is a new edition that incorporates the little errata, and adds some examples for younger, less experienced DM's and players. MAYBE a reorganization. An art direction that absolutely captures the feel. Some pieces would need to be changed, and the others colored. The cover art kept, the layout of it changed. The whole goal would be a "sexier" product with a more "modern" feel. Think moldvay/cook done in 3.5e or 4e style layout/art style, but with same original rules reorganized and clarified.

Solomariah, I know you have produced the perfect product. At the same time, it would not hurt to have a different look and feel to the same product. I am willing to pay for it. My bet is a lot of others are too.

I have produced a couple of products which appear on the downloads page on the BFRPG site. I do not mind putting put out screens and other items that broaden our appeal.

Remember, most new players these days do not know who Gary Gygax is. The Basic set they used was made in 2003 or 2007. I just got done with a 5 hour Traveller session with 12 players, most of whom grew up on 3.5e or 4th edition.