Character advancement = completely confused

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Grantso74
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Character advancement = completely confused

Post by Grantso74 »

Hello. My name is Grant and I've been trying to get a regular gaming session off the ground with my two brothers and I've finally got the project rolling. We have our characters made and we're planning on playing my homebrew campaign tomorrow. However, one rule has me stumped in the rulebook. I can't figure out how leveling works! I understand how to distribute XP and such, but I simply can't find anywhere what characters actually GAIN from leveling up. I know that magic users get more spells and thief abilities go up, but what about fighters? Can ability scores be increased? Or is the only thing that increases Hit Dice? Please help me out here. If there really is NO way to increase ability scores, maybe I'll just make it so you can choose one to increase every other level. But that seems a little unbalanced. If there is a rule I'm missing, please let me know. I also don't understand what the heck thieves are supposed to role in order to use an ability. Like do they role a percentile die? Thanks in advance.


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Dimirag
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Re: Character advancement = completely confused

Post by Dimirag »

Every class gets a new hit die roll at each new level until level 9, after that they get a flat value, they also get better saving throw values, attack bonus and special abilities.

In the case of fighters they gain hit points, attack bonus and better saving throws

You can use the optional ability roll rule that increases the chances of ability rolls as the character's level increase.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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Solomoriah
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Re: Character advancement = completely confused

Post by Solomoriah »

Grantso74 wrote:If there really is NO way to increase ability scores, maybe I'll just make it so you can choose one to increase every other level. But that seems a little unbalanced. If there is a rule I'm missing, please let me know.
Dimirag's explanation above is correct. Fighters gain attack bonus faster than the other classes, and of course they also have the largest hit dice. Ability scores do not increase by any normal means; what you roll is what you get. Increasing ability scores every level will result in overpowered characters in many cases; I'd avoid it.
Grantso74 wrote:I also don't understand what the heck thieves are supposed to role in order to use an ability. Like do they role a percentile die? Thanks in advance.
Percentile dice, yes, equal to or less than the given target number.

I really strongly recommend that you stick with the vanilla rules to start with. You can always add stuff later, but it's hard to take it back.
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Caelestis
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Re: Character advancement = completely confused

Post by Caelestis »

I found this really helpful as I have to admit I was just looking through and having the same thoughts. I wondered if I was missing something so this has cleared up the topic for me perfectly.

I have to say as a Newbie to this specific system I was looking for a way to increase base stats based on levelling up and thought I was missing something. It's good to know I hadn't!
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Koren_nRhys
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Re: Character advancement = completely confused

Post by Koren_nRhys »

Glad you guys have found the game, and I hope you enjoy it! I'd recommend looking at the game and the rules without preconceived notions as much as possible. Try not to bring your ideas of how things work from other editions if you can avoid it. The idea of increasing ability scores, for example, is very much a new-school addition - post 3E or so. Not applicable in the older edition of D&D that BFRPG is based on.

Always feel free to continue to ask questions here as well. The BFRPG community is a great, and helpful, one.
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SmootRK
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Re: Character advancement = completely confused

Post by SmootRK »

There are houserules or you can create your own for just about everything. That said, I agree that you ought to work with it as RAW (rules as written) for a while, and you just might find that those tweaks are not so necessary anyhow ;)
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Longman
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Re: Character advancement = completely confused

Post by Longman »

Hey Grant,

Dimirag's guide is pretty useful: http://www.basicfantasy.org/showcase.cgi?sid=77

It's a document listing most aspects of the core classes by level. All the hit dice, to hit bonuses, spells, etc.

That's not a supplement to the core rules. It's an aid to leveling up.
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Cryanhall
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Re: Character advancement = completely confused

Post by Cryanhall »

Hey Grant,

I've been toying with adding a house rule for ability score advancement too, but placing boundaries around it so as not unbalance or break the game.

Here are some of the criteria I'm thinking about:

1. Only humans can increase their ability scores.
2. Ability scores can only be increased if the character was rolled using 3d6 in order.
3. A player (with a human character) may choose to increase one ability score by one point at levels 4, 7, and 10, and no more after that.
4. The same ability score may be increased no more than one modifier level. For example, a score of "6" could be increased by three to a "9" by level 10 (an increase from -1 to 0 mod), but a score of "15" could NOT be increased by three to an "18" (an increase from a +1 to a +3 modifier).
5. No score may be raised over an "18."
6. Advancement only happens with GM approval (on a case to case basis).
7. This might only be a good idea in campaigns that aren't loaded with lots of magical weapons and armor (like mine).

The underlying logic of these criteria is that humans are the most adaptable race and the fastest learners. The other races have longer lifespans and other natural abilities that preclude them from having to improve their stats. These three increases represent training done outside of adventuring as well as what was learned through a rugged lifestyle. The increases stop just after "name level" because these characters probably don't have the time for extra study or training. They're most likely building towers or keeps to house their henchmen.

Keeping this advancement strictly for 3d6 characters makes sense to me, as rolling 4d6 (dropping the lowest) for ability scores generally results in characters with fewer shortcomings and more areas where they excel. These 4d6-minus-lowest scores tend to suggest characters with a bit more of an advantageous upbringing - they may have received formal training, education, regular meals. They've probably already reached their potential. The 3d6 characters who already lucked out with naturally good stats perhaps represent those naturally talented folks who could become legendary with the proper training/experience. On the other hand, I think it's totally legitimate for a GM to veto a character to boost ability scores if they already have a net modifier bonus of +3 to start with.

I don't think three extra points will make too many characters super-powered, unless you're handing out +1 swords and rings of protection every session, then yeah, you might have issues. As others pointed out, once you let that genie out of the bottle it's pretty hard to put it back in.

Although the old Basic version of the game never accounted for increasing ability scores, the old Advanced rules did somewhat address this by including rules for increasing and decreasing ability scores based on age. Those old Advanced rules also mention that it's usually essential for characters' survival to have a 15 or higher in no fewer than two ability scores (1e PHB, pg. 9). I'm not trying to be pedantic, but I think it's worth noting that these issues do have roots in older editions, not just the modern d20 ones.

Now, BFRPG isn't the Advanced game (which I'm glad for), and the rules hold that a character with a net modifier of zero or greater should be playable - and I agree. However, taking a look at some of the pre-gens in BF modules (Morgansfort, Chaotic Caves, Saga of the Giants) shows PCs with an average net modifier of over +2. Maybe my d6s are cursed, but I don't think I've ever rolled up a half dozen characters that good using 3d6.

Right now my players are using 3d6 straight down with one swap as long as one of the swapped scores is an intended pre-req. I may not need to change it, but we'll see. I want my players to feel challenged, but I don't want playing to be a slow slog for them either. I'm not opposed to offering an occasional carrot to reward them keeping a mediocre character alive through smart play.
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orobouros
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Re: Character advancement = completely confused

Post by orobouros »

Longman wrote:Hey Grant,

Dimirag's guide is pretty useful: http://www.basicfantasy.org/showcase.cgi?sid=77

It's a document listing most aspects of the core classes by level. All the hit dice, to hit bonuses, spells, etc.

That's not a supplement to the core rules. It's an aid to leveling up.
I was going to link to a DM screen sheet available here which collects the most important tables all in one place. http://basicfantasy.org/downloads/BFRPG ... ham-r2.pdf

If you look through the tables you'll see how without any stats increases characters still gain a lot from leveling up in addition to hit dice. Fighters at level 20 will almost always score a hit on an enemy. Thieves at 20 can fly around walls and are almost invisible to traps. Clerics look at the undead and destroy them on sight. Magic Users at 20 have access to spells that wipe out entire villages.

Increasing stats is an easy way to level up and makes a lot of sense in computer games. But a progression of skills to me at least makes it feel like levels mean something. The cleric has studied hard. The fighter has trained. Just a different way of working things, I suppose.
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