Sorcerers Supplement

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Solomoriah
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Sorcerers Supplement

Post by Solomoriah »

Post your comments here for the Sorcerers Supplement.

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SmootRK
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Re: Sorcerers Supplement

Post by SmootRK »

Has anyone playtested this?
Just wondering if the Spell Points are properly balanced out. A Sorcerer spell caster ought to be able to cast more spells per level than a traditional MU, but is balanced by little versatility (very limited spell choices). The table presented seems off to me, but I have not done a major investigation on it.

fyi - I am working on a class that will be another try at this... albeit, my class will be a bit more thought-out than a simplistic "same as MU, except using Charisma and slightly different number of spells" Sorcerer. I will share it after I get more content down... so far it is mostly in my head.
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Solomoriah
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Re: Sorcerers Supplement

Post by Solomoriah »

Um... they absolutely should NOT have more spells per level than a vanilla MU. They have MORE versatility, in the sense that they do not have to choose their spells in advance.

This is comparable to the old Arcanum magic system; casters got, on the average, a lot less spells per day than in other class/level systems, but they didn't have to prepare in advance.

My biggest concern is always that the BFRPG magic system isn't designed for spell points; there may be balance issues that aren't obvious. Someone does need to post some playtest results.
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SmootRK
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Re: Sorcerers Supplement

Post by SmootRK »

I think I am seeing the 'less versatile' as a function of having just a few different spells available, while a MU has the ability to accumulate any number of spells into his spell book, each day capable of choosing spells he believes will be most beneficial to the task at hand (although he could choose poorly and be ill-prepared). A spontaneous caster on the other hand, is severely limited in choice (imo = less versatile).

I do see your view that 'of those spells they do know' they get to freely choose amongst them at will... I am just not sure it is an equivalent trade-off, especially with the changes I have in mind.
After a re-read of the Sorcerer, I think the learning method is 'too much' (Charisma bonus in new spells at each level, assuming spells were witnessed)... and I can see where you would want to severely gimp the caster for having such an expansive list of spells available for spontaneous choice. A 5th level Sorcerer with 18 Charisma would be potentially able to spontaneously choose among 13 different spells... more than many 5th level stnd MUs I have dealt with, and they must 'prepare spells'... so I see your point (as written there).

Anyhow, I guess I should share my thoughts on the Spell Points changes:
  • Spell Points are level dependent (it is just the exact number I question).
  • Max Spell Level is about the same as standard MU can muster up.
  • They begin play with 2 spell choices... everything else must be acquired.
  • My big difference is that I propose to give them a maximum learned total of 2 Spells plus 1 Spell per point of Charisma Bonus (total) for each spell level... which is a big change from the Sorcerer Supplement
  • Each spell to be learned must be 'trained' as in witnesses, studied, taught, practiced. I also propose that most 'trainers' be paid about the same rate that a MU pays to scribe a spell into a spellbook.
  • The spell list is going to be severely tweaked and substantially different than standard MU (a flavor thing).
  • Some mechanism for dropping spells that are deemed 'less than desirable'. Something like at each even level the caster can drop 1 spell to make room for a different choice.
Thoughts after such proposed changes?
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SmootRK
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Re: Sorcerers Supplement

Post by SmootRK »

Instead of having actual Spell Points:
Perhaps another idea to consider is to give them the same Spells per Level as standard MU, restricting their 'known spells' as above, but allowing them to spontaneously choose which spell they want to cast within the restriction of each spell level.
This would be in much more in balance (on level by level basis) with standard MU, yet significantly different in the versatility area. You wont have high level 'sorcerers' casting multiple higher level spells than a similar MU (at expense of lower level spells).
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Re: Sorcerers Supplement

Post by swirler »

I'm a fan of all casters using spell points. the "planning ahead" spell casting has never set right with me. Another option that would provide limited spell ownership would be rune-mage, using tattoos. Especially since the body is only so large. Of course there would be a "de-inking" ritual
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SmootRK
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Re: Sorcerers Supplement

Post by SmootRK »

My problem with Spell Points in general, is that I have not seen a system that works universally across all levels, while the standard spell slot method, in spite of some flaws, does (or at least is better at it).

After some reflection, I think I will develop it with the same spell progression as MU, but with one bonus spell at each spell level. Spontaneous Choice within each spell level. Max Known spells is 2+Chr Bonus, and must be taught. At each even level, character may drop any one spell in order to learn another.

When I get the wording down into nice paragraph form then I think I will share the class details.
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Mhogrymm
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Re: Sorcerers Supplement

Post by Mhogrymm »

I really like the idea of sorcerers having a different spell list. Otherwise they are just a magic-user with an alternate casting system.

I am looking forward to seeing your sorcerer. I passed on allowing the current version in my game.
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Re: Sorcerers Supplement

Post by SmootRK »

It takes me a while because I write out the class fully (unlike how some supplements are written), but I have the bulk of the class written now, including how I would like the spontaneous spells to work. I just need to work on the spell lists to suit my idea of how the class 'flavor' should present itself.

I will start a new thread in the General Discussion forum to share the class and collect commentary and critique on my approach. But now, my bed is calling me!
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Solomoriah
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Re: Sorcerers Supplement

Post by Solomoriah »

Mhogrymm wrote:I really like the idea of sorcerers having a different spell list. Otherwise they are just a magic-user with an alternate casting system.
But, that is the point of the sorcerer... a magic-user with a different casting system.
swirler wrote:I'm a fan of all casters using spell points. the "planning ahead" spell casting has never set right with me.
I felt that way in the past; what changed my mind was Zelazny's second Amber series. Merlin, son of Corwin, prepares his battle spells in advance because it takes too long to cast them on the spot. Other spells, which are not so time-critical, he does cast that way. I'd love to see that exact mechanic in BFRPG form, but for now only my "other" game has it. (Realms of Wonder, if you're interested, is that game.)
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